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Announcing the RTM of Windows Vista SP1

Hi, Mike Nash here from the Windows Product Management group at Microsoft.  Today we are excited to announce that we have released Service Pack 1 for Windows Vista to manufacturing (RTM) for our first set of languages (English, French, Spanish, German and Japanese).

Service Pack 1 is a very important milestone because it addresses many of the key issues that our customers have identified with Windows Vista over the last year both, directly and through programs like the Customer Experience Improvement Program.  With Service Pack 1, we have made great progress in performance, reliability and compatibility.  One of the great things about my job is that I get to play with the latest builds of our products -- I've personally been running Windows Vista SP1 pretty exclusively for a few months and I've noticed that my systems run faster and more reliably than they did with the "Gold" release of Windows Vista.

When we first released Windows Vista last year, there were lots of customers who had great experiences, but some had issues finding applications that worked well on Windows Vista; others had problems finding the right device drivers for some of the hardware devices that they used.  The reason for these issues is that in order to improve the reliability and security of Windows Vista, we made some important architectural changes to the system.  While this caused some issues in the short term, in the long term we know that these investments will improve both the reliability and security of the customer experience on Windows.  Check out this blog post about the first year of Windows Vista security to see how some of these changes are paying off.

The good news is that this last year has been a great year of progress for Windows Vista in terms of improving application and device compatibility.  For example, 98 out of the top-selling 100 applications have versions available for Windows Vista.  And through the great work of our hardware partners, we now have 78,000 devices and components supported by Windows Update, up from about 34,000 in November 2006.  As a result, we have licensed over 100 million copies of Windows Vista to date.

Service Pack 1 brings new improvements that are based on feedback we heard from our customers.  It further improves the reliability and performance of Windows Vista.  The information we collect thanks to tools like the Customer Experience Improvement Program, Online Crash Analysis, and Windows Error Reporting help us learn about where and when customers are having issues with Windows Vista and the applications that run on it.  Since these issues have a direct impact on our customers' experiences, we've invested time and energy to make this better.  While Windows Vista Service Pack 1 is an important milestone, we will continue to invest in the continuous improvement process.

SP1 also includes changes focused on improving the performance of Windows Vista in areas that impact the customer experience the most.  For instance, with SP1, copying or moving files around your PC, your home network or your corporate network should now be much faster -- up to 50% faster in some scenarios (according to our internal tests).  In addition, on many kinds of hardware, resuming a Windows Vista-based PC from sleep is faster on Service Pack 1.

The key learning over the last year is that when we change the operating system, it takes time to let the ecosystem make sure that the hardware and software that they build works well with Windows Vista.  So as we release Windows Vista SP1 to manufacturing, we are going to be thoughtful about when and how it gets distributed.

With today's RTM of SP1, a number of processes kick off as we deliver the update to customers.  Our OEM partners will get SP1 and start producing new PCs running Windows Vista with SP1 pre-installed.  We will also start the manufacturing process for retail product of Windows Vista with SP1.  Both will be available in stores for new Windows Vista customers in the coming months.  Today we also start the process to manufacture DVDs for our enterprise customers who get our software via our Volume Licensing program.

As we update our customers to SP1, we want everyone to have a great install experience.  We are going to stage our rollout of SP1 for current Windows Vista users to be approximately concurrent with the availability of Windows Vista SP1 on new PCs and in stores.  There are a couple of reasons for this.  Our beta testing identified an issue with a small set of device drivers.  These drivers do not follow our guidelines for driver installation and as a result, some beta participants who were using Windows Vista and updated to Service Pack 1 reported issues with these devices.  Because the issue was with the way the drivers were installed and not the drivers themselves, the solution was simply to reinstall the drivers.  While this worked fine for our more technical beta testers, we want to deliver a better experience for customers as we make the update broadly available.

While we know that most customers who update from Windows Vista to SP1 will NOT be affected, our approach is to improve the experience for all our customers.  To do this, we will begin making SP1 available through Windows Update in mid-March, giving us time to work with some of our hardware partners to make adjustments to the installation process for the affected drivers.  As SP1 gets delivered through Windows Update, we will only offer it to PCs that we detect don't have any of the affected device drivers installed.  We're taking the next month or so to continue our work of identifying as many of these devices as possible.

Here's the timing for SP1 availability for current Windows Vista users:

  • In mid-March, we will release Windows Vista SP1 to Windows Update (in English, French, Spanish, German and Japanese) and to the download center on microsoft.com.  Customers who visit Windows Update can choose to install Service Pack 1.  If Windows Update determines that the system has one of the drivers we know to be problematic, then Windows Update will not offer SP1.  Since we know that some customers may want to update to SP1 anyhow, the download center will allow anyone who wants to install SP1 to do so.
  • In mid-April, we will begin delivering Windows Vista SP1 to Windows Vista customers who have chosen to have updates downloaded automatically.  That said, any system that Windows Update determines has a driver known to not update successfully will not get SP1 automatically.  As updates for these drivers become available, they will be installed automatically by Windows Update, which will unblock these systems from getting Service Pack 1.  The result is that more and more systems will automatically get SP1, but only when we are confident they will have a good experience.
  • The remaining languages will RTM in April.

New customers should feel great about buying Windows Vista today, knowing that when everything is ready, SP1 will be available to them via Windows Update.  In the meantime, remember that you can take advantage of the benefits of Windows Vista (including many improvements delivered via Windows Update) even without Service Pack 1.

This is an important milestone for our current and future Windows Vista customers around the world.  I want to take a minute to thank our customers for their feedback on Windows Vista and the beta of Service Pack 1.  I also want to thank our hardware and software partners for their continued efforts to deliver the best experiences on Windows Vista.

-Mike


Comments

  1. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 9:11AM

    Congratulations :)

  2. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 9:35AM

    Wait, what?

    "In mid-March, we will release Windows Vista SP1 to Windows Update (in English, French, Spanish, German and Japanese) and to the download center on microsoft.com."

    So it's done ... but we won't be able to actually get it for another six weeks? That would be incredibly frustrating.

    I understand that it won't be pushed via Windows-Update right away.

    But why would we have to wait another six weeks for a download center download?

  3. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 9:52AM

    [IMG]http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u65/dovellas/vistasptranoi.jpg[/IMG]

    WELLLLL

    congratulation TEAM SP1

    from ITALY

    http://www.hwupgrade.it/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=127

    Pls Link for Download in Italy

    script??

  4. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 10:03AM

    Great news, for both SP1 and Server 2008!

    Just wish we could get our hands on it earlier.  PAtience has never been one of my strong points :)

  5. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 10:05AM

    Renato del Blog Team TechNet Italia

    possiamo sperare in uno script per scaricare prima SP1??

    non sarebbe giusto attendere tutto questo tempo da Windows Update non credi??

  6. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 10:25AM

    that silly having to wait.

    anyone with bit of sense could reinstall some drivers

    and we have to wait till march before it on download centre?

  7. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 10:31AM

    When will MSDN and Technet subscribers be able to download SP1?  MSDN can download server 2008....

  8. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 10:40AM

    Please allow us to download this manually from the Microsoft Download center.  I just did fresh installs of Vista x64 on all my machines in anticipation of the release.  Six weeks is too long to wait for the performance increase alloted by SP1.  Thanks!

  9. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 10:51AM

    @cwagz

    you have a Link?????????

  10. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 10:51AM

    Thats got to the most stupid thing i've read yet....

    WHAT DO YOU THINKS GONNA HAPPEN TODAY/TOMORROW >????

    It will be on bit torrent and other sites LEAKED

    Face the facts you have a download everyone wants they are going to get it however they can.

    Do you really want that to be the way your customers get their major updates ????

    WAKE UP!!!

  11. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 11:04AM

    hey

    in Ultimate (MUI pack lenguage) it s possible Istall SP1 ????????????????????????????

  12. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 11:04AM

    I strongly agree... Waiting until March to release it on Microsoft.com is a mistake! If it's done, even if it's only the English version, get it out the door as quickly as possible! Otherwise, what was the point of announcing it so early, if nobody can get it for 6 weeks?

  13. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 11:10AM

    crpietschmann

    I think in this day we have a link to download sp1 (im italian)

  14. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 11:15AM

    Waiting any longer is a mistake indeed. Returning customers are gold, so treat them as such.

  15. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 11:35AM

    This is the kind of mindless arrogance that have to be expected from the great minds of Microsoft. People will simply not wait another 6-10 weeks to get their grossly premature OS somewhat patched up

    This is what for sure will happen the next few days: More or less orginal pathes and SP1 intigrated disks will spread on filesharing networks like a rapid fire, and people will download them.

  16. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 11:48AM

    Team of SP1 PLS respond to my question

    i Have Vista Ultimate and Mui Pack

    i Can istall SP1 English in Italy????????

  17. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 11:52AM

    Great to 'hear' that it has RTM'd though a 6 week wait for testers that have not had a problem is a bit of a stretch.

    And you have gone from 34,000 to 78,000 Drivers which is great so how about you add one more driver to that for your own Microsoft Fingerprint Reader on the x64 platform or at least give us an official reply in the TechNet forums as to why you won't write drivers for your own hardware.

    http://forums.microsoft.com/technet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2785316&SiteID=17

    Cheers,

    Stephen

  18. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 12:08PM

    Is there a reason for the waiting time til mid-march?

    When it's ready - release it.

    When it's not ready - delay it.

    I can't see really the benefit of an RTM Version of SP1 when I can't have it.

  19. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 12:11PM

    That's great news. But also a frustrating anti-climax. We now have to wait another 6 weeks? Why are OEMs more important than the Systems Administrators that run 100s of MS products on thousands of PCs, laptops and servers every day on corporate networks (for our sins!). Why not put it on Connect or the downloads site?

  20. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 12:12PM

    I agree. I can understand the delay for Auto Update also, but why would it take six weeks to get the manual download ready for those of us who want to experiment?  Unless maybe they are training their support staff, it makes no logical sense.

  21. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 12:32PM

    Now if you folks could just fix Office 2007.

  22. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 1:21PM

    Great, SP1 is finished, but you won't release it for another 6 weeks. Must be the stupidest announcement I have ever read. 5 years to get Windows Vista ready, almost 1 1/4 years to get service pack 1 ready... your pace at getting out new products must be the slowest in the industry. And now you are artificially making it even slower by just waiting doing nothing for 6 weeks. Unbelievable.

  23. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 1:21PM

    Thanks Vista Team ! Waiting for the SP1 RTM. Have been running SP1 RC ref.. I think its almost as good as RTM. Right? I haven't faced any problem with SP1 RC.

    Just blogged about Vista RTM :

    http://vasudevg.blogspot.com/2008/02/windows-vista-service-pack-1-windows.html

  24. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 1:58PM

    You should put it online and not delay it ... im not sure you know how many people are awaiting sp1...

  25. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 2:10PM

    Great news! I wish it was available earlier though.

    César :)

  26. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 2:20PM

    That has got to be the one of the worst excuses I have heard for announcing the RTM of a product and then telling your paying customers they must now wait 6 weeks to acquire it. Did you even run this past one person outside of Microsoft for input? This is going to be wildly rejected by your user community and most loyal supporters. You are, in essence, pushing people to download this as soon as it leaks (and it will).

    Allow it to be downloaded manually as you have for every other SP you have ever put out. I don't see the logic in forcing the public to wait for OEMs to create new PC's with SP1 and retail packaging so we can all experience this small group of device driver failures in unison. If you think this small set of drivers will get fixed in the next six weeks, just say so and be honest. And then release it anyway and inform us of the risks. We can then intelligently decide to install it or not. Delay only the auto updates.

  27. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 2:26PM

    Congrats, celebrate, etc. We all know by now that SP1-RTM is announced!

    Now...take action and introduce it to the customers (your real audience!!!).

  28. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 2:38PM

    Oh good they released it to Manufacturing.....WOW...Who cares what about the loyal customers who have been running Vista since the CTP, Cmon Microsoft, we are the techs who make this stuff work for you, and now we have done the testing and feedback only to be told we have to wait until mid March or april...Thats a JOKE

  29. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 3:14PM

    Echoing many of the comments here... I can totally appreciate not wanting to release for auto-update customers yet, but for us IT pros, why not release it somewhere (TechNet, MSDN, Connect, or something) so we can begin testing it?  A lot of folks are also waiting for SP1 before deploying Vista (or even evaluating Vista), so why not give them a leg up by offering it at least for download?

    Congrats on shipping it! :)

  30. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 3:39PM

    What is the build/version number of SP1? Does the retail (with SP1) media have the same build number? Will there be an official way to order SP1 integrated media for current Vista users if they provide their product key online?

  31. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 3:46PM

    SP1 Rtm in order

    English, French, spanish, Equador, Ukraina, Lapponia, Indonesia, Peruvian, South Africa , Indonesia, Lituania, Grek , Marocco, Panama, bagladesh, istabull ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and last Italy

    Thx Boys

  32. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 3:49PM

    I cant see why Microsoft would hold off releasing Service Pack 1 for Windows Vista, this needs to be out today, why announce it if its not ready.

    Fair enough there is a bug and a minor one at best, how many people wouldn't mind reinstalling their drivers.

    Microsoft could easily release a hotfix to fix the issue.

    GET IT OUT THE DOOR

  33. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 4:14PM

    C'mon.  Give it to us now.  It can't be any worse than what you gave us a year ago.

  34. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 4:28PM

    I know this won't make any difference, but let me say it too that this decision is, well, stupid.  I can understand, and actually support, the delay on Windows Update, cause that where people who don't want any headache get their update.  But for some people out their, reinstalling driver is nothing compare to waiting another six weeks.  Just make it available somewhere, put a warning on that, and let the person who download it make their own decision.

    Congratulations on release SP1...to who I don't know.

  35. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 4:46PM

    Technology Experience (Reborn)

    non è uscito proprio niente,

    è la prima volta che vedo un RTM senza nessuna possibilità di downloadper nessuno

  36. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 5:09PM

    SELAMAT MAJU JAYA BUAT TEAM VISTA SP1. SALAM SAYANG DARI KAMI DI MALAYSIA!

  37. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 5:23PM

    Make it available to the more technical users that want to download it now then push it out via WU in six weeks. Surely the more technical users are smart enough to get around the driver problem if it affects them and shouldn't have to wait because of other users that is just stupid.

  38. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 6:32PM

    Why even announce that SP1 is RTM if you aren't going to let users have it?  Sounds stupid to me!  Didn't your mother or father teach you that teasing isn't nice?

    I have two systems with Vista... one has 386 problems awaiting "solutions" in the "Problem Reports & Solutions" queue, while the other has 254.

    I don't know if SP1 will help with any of those problems, but I'd sure like to see SP1 released on Windows Update... NOW!

    Additionally, will a list of the conflicting/bad drivers be published so that users that have them will even know?  Once SP1 is finally released, it certainly would be nice to be able to know what is causing SP1 to not show up in Windows Update.

  39. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 6:57PM

    I get a feeling that this post has been made to quieten down the crowds more than anything else.

    You state that certain users have a problem with SPECIFIC drivers, well surely that means you aware of which drivers this affects and would be working on resolving that issue ??? so why include something you know thats broken within a service pack to manufacturers ? or does this problem not apply to new installs only on upgrades ??

    Theres plenty of people reading this right now, that installed the beta versions of sp1 since its release and tested it for you guys(myself included). And managed to work around any problems that installing it created.

    If this release is good enough for manufacturers , then surely its good enough for the people thats paid money for the o/s and spent the past year being a beta tester.

    Not that i wanna tell you how to do your job, but why didn't you simply put up a post saying that sp1 was very close to completion and would be rolled out to everyone by the end of mar. By the time that boxed versions of vista with sp1 integrated reaches the shop shelf then it would already have been available on WU.

    We have waited this long, so 6 weeks ain't going to make a big difference. But you have probably just cut your bandwidth charges by 80% for the year by announcing its availably from todays date...... was that the plan :D

  40. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 8:04PM

    hey everyone at Microsoft I am a happy vista user that makes software, anyway I hope this fixes the "irq not less or equal" error, it drives me crazy!

  41. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 10:13PM

    What were you guys thinking.  This reeks.  Why can't I have the bits if they are gold and if I'm willing to take the risk with my drivers?  This is one of the all time worst moves from a PR perspective you've ever made.  Even you must admit that kind of accomplishment is not easily done.

    Give us SP1.  No excuses.

  42. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 10:20PM

    Well Im running the beta, but the final RTM would be nicer :-)

    Congrats Guys

  43. Posted on: February 04, 2008 at 11:11PM

    por que hacen el anuncion con bombo y platillos si para nosotros, el usuario común estará hasta dentro de seis semanas más.

    no encuentro la razón para tanto alboroto

  44. Posted on: February 05, 2008 at 4:41AM

    TO Mike Nash,  Sp1 team, Ballmer , Gates, Evangelist & CO.

    I Wont comprise the position than Microsoft regarding Italian user.

    Yesterday Mike Nash it has been announced Vista SP1 RTM  to March for English, French, Spanish, German and Japanese.

    Since Italian we are still a enough valid country special way regarding Spain and France,  possible that we have been puttinges from part?

    considering that sp1 it is  multilenguage in order which reason you have discarded to us?

    I write to name of all Italian mine comunity I assure and you that we are in that we offer support for those which the persons are our acquaintances to all who have adopted Vista  (but also xp)

    I make you this appeal in order to at least receive SP1 with to France, Spain, England and German its Possible ???

    We cannot be puttinges to an equal level to the Teleban .

    dovella and Italian Waiting Response

  45. Posted on: February 05, 2008 at 5:57AM

    I have Vista Ultimate installed with a MSDN licence key and it has already downloaded the Service Pack 1 via Auto Updates.

    Let the Plebs wait

  46. Posted on: February 05, 2008 at 6:51AM

    I hope all the bugs are fixed, because the bug reporting program was bugged itself, and could not send any reports in.

    I hope at least the IQR conflict freezes the whole computer problem is fixed.

    And the folder view problems, not every folder is full of music and videos (program.exe "Date taken" ?, nor do i want other folders changing t giant thumbs because i did so on some other folder).

    And something that pops up and tells users they need to update their vista experience rating. So many people complaining, glass disappeared.

    And that typing in the start menu covers games. So many people could not find Supreme commander because of this.

    I hope search is back on the right mouse click menu. Stuff the EU, they can have vista basic.

    And i hope the most annoying bug of all, plugging in your PDA to charge, while watching a video. No one want media player trying to play the music on their PDA, and cancel their video.

    And don't forget, the images, that show as a squashed line, both in thumbs and preview. but show perfectly fine even in windows paint.

    And last but not least, the login to fast bug that also affects XP, if you login to fast, some services fail to start, and some programs fail to start.

    I hope i can slip stream this SP, as installing the Nvidia 680i is a barstool of a thing to install vista on.

  47. Posted on: February 05, 2008 at 8:57AM
  48. Posted on: February 05, 2008 at 9:08AM

    Hrm.. Sounds like a thinly veiled delay to me.  To annouce RTM and then effecitvely say "we're working on it still" is contradictory, no?  Either it's done or it is not.  What I get from this is that it has been delayed until March pending the resolution of driver issues.

    Quite frankly I would let the vendor handle this because they were the ones to ship the drivers that did not follow the guidelines.  There is a reason that they are published and it should be known that they need to be followed.  A hard line approach might bolster the efforts to stabilize the operating system.  Maybe then the MBS group would do the same and stop telling their users to disable UAC on the latest Dynamics GP release.

  49. Posted on: February 05, 2008 at 10:18AM

    I am so disappointed in Microsoft. Is it done, or isn't it? As a Partner, I need to see this stuff and get my testing done so I can try and make some inroads with my customers. 6 weeks to wait for a download is 6 more weeks that Microsoft won't sell Vista to businesses.

    6 weeks is 6 more weeks that those of use who bought Vista, used it, tested it, provided feedback, and have been dealing with the problems, have to wait.

    Put it up on Microsoft's download site with a warning on the drivers and let your IT Pros have 6 weeks to kick the tires so that we can provide support when SPI comes out via Windows update.

    Geez! This would seem so obvious.

  50. Posted on: February 05, 2008 at 10:53AM

    I would call it a bad marketing move to mention that SP1 was RTM when it has not been (and from all indications will not be prior) released to Partners/MSDN chains.  Does Microsoft seriously expect to release SP1 into the wild without developers having any chance to see what it will do to their software?  And don't give me the release candidate crap - we all know that the final is never the same product.

    With a product that will be so likely to cause so many problems for software developers, I just can't believe that Microsoft would go RTM ahead of releasing SP1 to the developers.  To me Microsoft is just kicking us developers in the gut... it's like saying "we don't care how much crap you had to go through to get things working with Vista (or that we gave you far more lead time to do it before it was released to the public) we are going to release it and you will have to deal with it.  I just hope Microsoft will see the errors of it's ways and release the SP1 final to the developers soon (like today).


Trackbacks

  1. Posted by: Server and Tools Business News Bytes blog on February 04, 2008 at 9:07AM

    Windows Vista Service Pack 1 (SP1) was released to manufacturing today and will start being available

  2. Posted by: Blog Team TechNet Italia on February 04, 2008 at 9:12AM

    E' ufficiale, notizia di pochissimi minuti fa. Sono appena stati rilasciati Windows Server 2008 e Windows

  3. Posted by: Paul Mooney on February 04, 2008 at 9:25AM

    Announcing the RTM of Windows Vista SP1 Windows Vista Service Pack 1 includes all previously released...

  4. Posted by: Noticias externas on February 04, 2008 at 9:30AM

    From PressPass : PressPass wrote: What: Windows Vista Service Pack 1 (SP1) was released to manufacturing

  5. Posted by: Dragan Panjkov / SharePoint blog / on February 04, 2008 at 9:40AM
  6. Posted by: Dragan Panjkov blog on February 04, 2008 at 9:40AM

    Windows Server 2008 and Windows Vista SP1 are RTM

  7. Posted by: Scambler on February 04, 2008 at 9:54AM

    Read Article....

  8. Posted by: ИТ, ИБ и т.п. on February 04, 2008 at 9:56AM

    Сегодня залез в свою TechNet подписку и увидел там такое(кликабельно):Это RTM??? Судя по сообщениям общественности...

  9. Posted by: Maarten Van Stam on February 04, 2008 at 10:09AM

    And there it is...Microsoft released Service Pack 1 for Windows Vista to manufacturing (RTM) for our

  10. Posted by: Roger's Security Blog on February 04, 2008 at 10:11AM

    It's here now and ready to go: We just announced that we RTMed Windows Vista SP1 and Windows Server 2008

  11. Posted by: OPC Diary on February 04, 2008 at 10:31AM

    キタ━━━( ´∀`)・ω・) ゚Д゚)・&#8...

  12. Posted by: Noticias externas on February 04, 2008 at 10:31AM

    A flurry of emails this afternoon confirms that Windows Vista Service Pack 1 has been released (or at

  13. Posted by: DotNetKicks.com on February 04, 2008 at 11:00AM

    You've been kicked (a good thing) - Trackback from DotNetKicks.com

  14. Posted by: TechBlog on February 04, 2008 at 11:05AM

    Microsoft today released the first service pack for Windows Vista to manufacturing. That means the company will start producing retail and OEM copies of Vista with SP1 included. It also means existing users of the controversial operating system won't

  15. Posted by: Tech Presales News for Austrian Partners on February 04, 2008 at 11:16AM

    Es ist soweit: Sowohl das Vista SP1 als auch der Windows Server 2008 sind Released to manufacturing (RTM)

  16. Posted by: